XFce on Fedora

[Void Main]

i imagine it's because i had just stuck the hostname command in the startup scripts like i did in slack, musthave been upgraded along with everything else. i have stuck it in rc.local and now it's fine.

That's still the wrong way to do it. In RH/Fedora your hostname is set in the /etc/sysconfig/network file under the variable HOSTNAME. For an easier way to do this just run the redhat-config-network command and click the "DNS" tab and enter your hostname there. It will update the /etc/sysconfig/network file. That command is also on the menu under System Settings->Network.

as for the xfce thing, it's simply an issue with figuring out how to add xfce to gdm. i did search google for this, and found i should add the correct file in /etc/X11/gdm which i tried to do, except the file is already there and seems to be correct(since i installed xfce properly using rh9 rpms via instructions from you on these forums) already prior to the upgrade. probably i have to find some gdm specific instructions. will probably do that tomorrow.

I'll look into this tonight and see what I can come up with.

EDIT: Ok, home now and I just installed XFce by doing this (Calum can skip ahead past the installation part):

Code: Select all

# wget http://umn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/xfce/xfce-4.0.1-rpm-rh9.tar.bz2
# tar -xvjf xfce-4.0.1-rpm-rh9.tar.bz2
# cd xfce-4.0.1/rpm/rh9
# rpm -ivh *.rpm


Now the above just installs the latest XFce (4.0.1). It doesn't actually make it show up on the GDM session menu (I'm sure as soon as Fedora specific RPMs are available it will). At any rate I easily got it to show up in the session menu by creating /usr/X11/dm/Sessions/XFce4.desktop.

Now, the above file will only cause it to show up on the sessions menu and let you log in using the XFce desktop, however it does not allow you to make it your default window manager. It tells you to use "switchdesk" to make it your default but switchdesk does not know about it either. You can make XFce your default window manager by creating a ~/.Xclients-default with this line in it:

Code: Select all

/usr/bin/startxfce4


Don't forget to set the execute bit:

Code: Select all

$ chmod +x ~/.Xclients-default


I'm not exactly sure how to make switchdesk aware of it and I don't have time to dig into it right now but that should get you going.

[Calum]

That's still the wrong way to do it. In RH/Fedora your hostname is set in the /etc/sysconfig/network file under the variable HOSTNAME. For an easier way to do this just run the redhat-config-network command and click the "DNS" tab and enter your hostname there. It will update the /etc/sysconfig/network file. That command is also on the menu under System Settings->Network.

WOW! look at all that stuff in /etc/sysconfig! i must have been off the day they told us about that directory! thanks! how cool!

I'll look into this tonight and see what I can come up with.

thanks, void main, i appreciate how you look stuff up for me and others.

Now the above just installs the latest XFce (4.0.1). It doesn't actually make it show up on the GDM session menu (I'm sure as soon as Fedora specific RPMs are available it will).

most likely, when i installed it for red hat 9 it added itself fine. still, i am learning stuff this way.

At any rate I easily got it to show up in the session menu by creating /usr/X11/dm/Sessions/XFce4.desktop.

i am embarrased to contradict you but i think you may be typing too fast. after a try or two, i figured this should be /etc/X11/gdm/Sessions/XFce4.desktop

Now, the above file will only cause it to show up on the sessions menu and let you log in using the XFce desktop, however it does not allow you to make it your default window manager. It tells you to use "switchdesk" to make it your default but switchdesk does not know about it either. You can make XFce your default window manager by creating a ~/.Xclients-default with this line in it:

Code: Select all

/usr/bin/startxfce4


Don't forget to set the execute bit:

Code: Select all

$ chmod +x ~/.Xclients-default


I'm not exactly sure how to make switchdesk aware of it and I don't have time to dig into it right now but that should get you going.

thank you again! i will try this out now.

[Void Main]

At any rate I easily got it to show up in the session menu by creating /usr/X11/dm/Sessions/XFce4.desktop.

i am embarrased to contradict you but i think you may be typing too fast. after a try or two, i figured this should be /etc/X11/gdm/Sessions/XFce4.desktop

You dare to doubt the great Oz? :) It actually wasn't a typo. I found it in a Google search and it indeed worked on my Laptop where I installed XFce. It didn't work on your machine?

[Calum]

At any rate I easily got it to show up in the session menu by creating /usr/X11/dm/Sessions/XFce4.desktop.

i am embarrased to contradict you but i think you may be typing too fast. after a try or two, i figured this should be /etc/X11/gdm/Sessions/XFce4.desktop

You dare to doubt the great Oz? It actually wasn't a typo. I found it in a Google search and it indeed worked on my Laptop where I installed XFce. It didn't work on your machine?

Well now i try it it doesn't work either way
also the .Xclients-default file isnt making XFce start when i log in either. maybe i should justuse kdm like before, although it doesn't look as cool.

Although, i did notice that /etc/X11/gdm/Sessions already exists, but i had to create /usr/X11/dm/Sessions from scratch due to no X11 directory being within /usr

[Void Main]

Duh!!! The great Oz just had the curtain opened! It always works out that way, start to get a little cocky and it all comes crashing down. It *was* a typo. It's supposed to be /etc/X11/dm/Sessions, not /usr/X11/dm/Sessions. Sorry about that! I was focused on the "dm"/"gdm" part and not the "usr"/"etc" part. I can't believe I typed that. All the X configuration stuff on Red Hat is under /etc/X11. Sorry! :)

The ~/.Xclients-default should definitely have worked though. It is set executable right? You also have a file called /usr/bin/startxfce4 right? I should probably split this XFce thing off onto it's own thread...

[Calum]

void, i have found what look like a set of xfce rpms for fedora at http://www.redkanga.com/files/fedora-0.94/RPMS/ and am now downloading them with wget, will try them and see how i go.

i am very surprised this is so hard in fedora! when i didt-upgrade d from slackware 9.0 to 9.1 it did my xfce3 to xfce4 flawlessly, and i suppose i just expected the red hat experience to be easier/more user friendly than slackware. That's why i decided to ditch slack 9.1 on the laptop when i wanted to try fedora. to be honest though, i suspect the other machine upstairs will continue to have rh9 on it (which seems to work without a hitch, so why change it?)
anyway...

[Void Main]

I saw those RPMs in my search but I noticed it was a stlightly older version of XFce and they were packaged for a prerelease version of Fedora so I stayed away from them. I suspect that most people who use Fedora will not be using XFce. I suspect most people use the default Gnome and the next biggest group would be KDE. I have grown to really like the default Fedora setup with Gnome. I switched from using KDE primarily to Gnome primarily when RH8 came out (also when the Bluecurve theme came out).

I didn't find it difficult to add XFce to Fedora even though the RPMs I installed were not even for Fedora. I just had to add those two simple files I mentioned. So for me it wasn't even a difficult thing. I don't understand why it's giving you a problem. But again, I can hardly blame Fedora for that. Now if Fedora had shipped with the XFce packages and they didn't work then I would be complaining. I suspect there are XFce packages for Slack, in which case I would expect the upgrade to go smoothly on Slack.

I'm really surprised that there are not Fedora RPMs in the XFce download section though. They would surely get more exposure if they did and it would take little effort for an XFce guru to build them. Maybe the RPMs you are downloading are the ticket although I suspect the only difference between the ones you are downloading at the RH9 RPMs are a couple of config files. I would build a set of RPMs but I don't have the bandwidth to host them. If the ones you are downloading work then I guess nothing more needs to be done, we'll just have a link here.

I suppose we could also ask Matthias (FreshRPMS) to add XFce to his repository. The only reason it isn't a 100% smooth process now is because there are no easily available official and properly built RPMs built specifically for Fedora (that we are aware of). The only possible reason I can think of for that is that most people who use XFce do not use Red Hat/Fedora and most people who use Red Hat/Fedora do not use XFce so the interest in building proper RPMs isn't there. On the other hand, without the RPMs few people will get a chance to experience XFce. It's a shame too because XFce looks very nice and works very well. It's almost baffling that there are no RPMs in an apt repository so more people would get a taste of it.

EDIT: I just installed the SRC RPM for switchdesk and I have hacked it to support XFce4. I will have them up in my repository soon.

[Void Main]

Ok, the new switchdesk RPMS are now in my repo. I made them available for both RH9 and Fedora although I only have tested it on Fedora and it may only work on Fedora. Maybe someone can let me know. As I said, I hacked them to add XFce4 support and I know it works if you have these RH9 XFce4 RPMs installed on your Fedora system:

http://umn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourcefor ... h9.tar.bz2

See the first message in this thread for how to download/install the above package if needed.

Of course my RPMS listing is here:

http://voidmain.is-a-geek.net/files/RPMS/

and of course they can be installed via apt-get if you have my repo in your sources.list file.

The patch I created to be added to the switchdesk-3.9.8-18.src.rpm file as seen in my version can be found here with the updated spec file. Of course you have all of that if you just get my source RPM.

If you don't like the XFce4 logo in the XFce4 selection in the graphical switchdesk I must apologize. I couldn't find an official XFce4 xpm the right size so I had to create one (with Gimp). Also, to switch to XFce4 via the command line you can use "switchdesk XFCE4" or "switchdesk XFCE". Let me know if you have any problems with it. If it works maybe I'll add a new Fedora tip on how to add XFce...

[Calum]

i feel like a heel and a cad now! in the interim, i have put the laptop back to slack, the coward's way out!) well, the desktop machine upstairs still has red hat 9 on it, and i am swithering on whether to convert it up to fedora. however i probably will, and will follow the instructions you provided from scratch. if you got it to work and i didn't then i strongly suspect the problem is located somewhere between the chair and the keyboard.

thanks for putting time and effort into this. i am a little impatient with red hat not really admitting other desktop environments than gnome and kde exist. they are full of bloat, and XFce and windowmaker are just as good for a lot of people. as is enlightenment in fact. and probably some others. i do think they should at leastbe in the freshrpms repository, window managers are good.

[Void Main]

I don't know. Gnome doesn't feel any bloatier (is that a word?) to me than XFce. I can't blame Fedora for limiting the included/supported desktop environments to just the major players. And again, it's really XFce's fault for not packaging up Red Hat and Fedora packages for it. Maybe if they made the effort then they might just get included in the next Fedora release. After all, Fedora is now an open project.

The window manager is not the most important part of a distro to me. In fact it's way down on my list. I also don't really have a problem using any one of a number of window manager/environments. I can comfortably use Gnome, KDE, CDE, Windowmaker, Motif, Enlightenment, fvwm(2), XFce, blackbox, twm, and probably a couple that have slipped my mind. I honestly don't have a preference.

Gnome is what pops up when I do a default Red Hat/Fedora install so that is what I use. I don't even take the time to change the background. :) I guess I am pretty boring.

[mexkn]

Of course my RPMS listing is here:

http://voidmain.is-a-geek.net/files/RPMS/

and of course they can be installed via apt-get if you have my repo in your sources.list file.

The patch I created to be added to the switchdesk-3.9.8-18.src.rpm file as seen in my version can be found here with the updated spec file. Of course you have all of that if you just get my source RPM.

Before I ask my really simple question, I would like to say your step-by-step instructions are awesome! Thanks muchly for taking the time to do all of this for us!

Ok, so I added your repository to my sources.list from your webpage, and I'm trying to get switchdesk. (I followed your directions to try to make XFce default, but it does not even appear as an available Session at the login screen.) I get the uber-annoying

Code: Select all

E: Error: 3 unsigned package(s)
0 package(s)s with unknown signatures
0 package(s) with illegal/corrupted signatures

I've been searching for a place where you mention your key, but have yet to find it.

Thanks for your time!

[Void Main]

Hmmm, I don't have a key. I guess you have your apt-get configured to only get signed packages huh? The apt-get from FreshRPMS and from Dag work fine for me with their default configuration. Apparently they are set up to not require a signature. You bring up a very good point though. I should sign them all and put the key up there for people to download.

As a workaround for now, you should be able to install them with RPM directly:

Code: Select all

# rpm -Uvh http://voidmain.is-a-geek.net/files/RPMS/switchdesk-3.9.8-18.vm1.i386.rpm


If it is RPM itself that you have configured to require signatures then you should be able to add the "--nosignatures" switch to the above command. I'm about to head out for the day so I won't be able to work on signing them until this evening (if I remember).

Also, it's been a while since I messed with this. If a newer version has come out in the updates for the distro it would override my version and I would have to create a new RPM with the patches (I should pass the patch along to Red Hat/Fedora or Gnome so they can include it in the main package).

[mexkn]

"Well I feel sheepish."


After you mentioned getting apt-get from Dag, I remembered that I had just added that repo to my sources.list, and amongst other things, I got an upgraded apt. (I had to comment out your repository so that it wouldn't try to install switchdesk.) But I didn't apt-get update; apt-get upgrade after I got the new apt. After updating, I'm able apt-get install your rpms now!

--By the way, is there a way to exclude packages when doing apt-get (dist-)upgrade? I've looked through the man pages a few times, but haven't seen anything resembling excluding a particular package.--

XFce4 now appears as an option when I use the kde "Desktop Switching Tool" and it tells me it was successfully changed and that I should restart x. A quick googling lead to a hot-key-combo ctrl-alt-backspace. This doesn't work for me. It TURNS OFF my computer-- (i.e. not shutdown gracefully)--as if the plug was pulled. I brought my machine back up, and XFce still did not appear as an option in my session list. I chose default seeing as switchdesk changed my ~/.Xclients-default and at some point a ~/.Xclients-[myhostname]:0.0 was created and both executable. The logged me in with gnome. Both of them have 'exec /usr/bin/startxfce4' in them, and startxfce4 exists in /usr/bin.

I looked at my ~/.Xclients file:

#!/bin/bash

# Created by Red Hat Desktop Switcher

if [ -e "$HOME/.Xclients-$HOSTNAME$DISPLAY" ]; then
exec $HOME/.Xclients-$HOSTNAME$DISPLAY
else
exec $HOME/.Xclients-default
fi

and it looks like it should be, at the very least, executing my .Xclients-default.

Any Ideas?

[Void Main]

By the way, is there a way to exclude packages when doing apt-get (dist-)upgrade?

Yes there is a way. You add the RPMS that you don't want upgraded to your /etc/apt/apt.conf. I believe you add them to the "Ignore { }" or "Hold { }" tags. You should see those in your apt.conf. I believe it follows the same rules for naming as the "Allow-Duplicated { }" which you should see kernel entries for. Use that as an example. Don't know if you know regular expressions but the "^" means that the line must start with the text that follows and the "$" means that the line must end with the text that precedes. Version numbers are apparently not included in the matching, just the base name. Someone posted how to prevent certain RPMS from being upgraded before in these forums, but I am sure it was one of the two keys I mentioned.

A quick googling lead to a hot-key-combo ctrl-alt-backspace. This doesn't work for me. It TURNS OFF my computer--

Then I would say you have something drastically wrong. :) CTRL+ALT+BKSPC is the standard X key combo to kill X. You really should never use it except if your X windows is locked to a point you can't do anything else and as a last resort try and kill X with the CTRL+ALT+BKSPC.

XFce still did not appear as an option in my session list.

Hmmm, I'll have to check it out and see what I come up with. I haven't messed with it in a while. I have an hour or so of dirt bike washing to do right now and I'll check it out when I get finished.

[mexkn]

Success

I was curious if there were any more packages for xfce, so I did an apt-get --no-act install xfce* There were 16 new packages. Strange: I got all the packages originally from the sourceforge page above, but newRMPS appears to have more. I started a new session and lo and behold: xfce was in the list!

Thanks for everything