Will Debian (Ubuntu) achieve mainstream market for linux

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Will Debian (Ubuntu) achieve mainstream market for linux

Post by JoeDude » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:44 am

Great distro, hell yeah.

Underdog, deffinately.

Are we finally standing at that line where linux crosses over and actually starts to take marketshares from MS in a form of OS war? If a big time computer corp like HP is now using it, what's next? The number of people I am seeing who are really really happy with Ubuntu and have willing jumped into linux because of it (4 now in my neighborhood :) yw) is gowing...

Could it be the big one? Let's cross our fingers and hope so!
Last edited by JoeDude on Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Jenda » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:31 am

How is the most popular linux distro out there an... underdog?

JoeDude - a very stylish thing to do is stick Ubuntu case badges on computers of your victims. I underwent a little project of printing a batch of 1000 stickers to send out to the world (free only in CZ) for a small fee.
If you're interested, have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Shipping for the previews, and you can order from me at jenda at ubuntu dot com. I don't make a profit, so it shoudn't be considered spam :) The price is $3 dollars for 10 pcs including shipping to the USA - gets cheaper when you buy more.
Paypal is the preferred method of payment.

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Post by Void Main » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:23 am

Pioneer? Heh heh, it's a little late for that.

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Post by JoeDude » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:42 am

That would be cool. I'll just slap thenm on their doors as well...

Underdog yes. In the world of OS's, even the most popular of the linuses are underdogs. They would have to over take Mac just to get considered and how deeply would they have to delve into MS territory before it was really taken as a serious threat?

Pioneer, well I can give a little on that...Granted linux is leagues ahead of MS in erms of quality of Product. Gaming is the only thing that harms linux in the world of divesity of use. Marketting is the problem area for linux. There's plenty out there but no one sees it. Take for example those linux commercials IBM made...I never saw them other than on the web. It's a world of ms's rules as they all ready have the territory in the world of OS marketting mapped and mastered... I'm losing my train of thought, work getting in the way of play again...

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Post by Void Main » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:56 am

I saw the IBM ads on TV all the time. As far as Linux taking over market share from Apple on the desktop, I believe that has already happened. I have seen recent numbers showing that to be the case although you know measuring desktop usage of Linux is difficult because of it's open nature. Either way the only reason I care at all that Linux gains in numbers is so it can't be overlooked by stupid web site designers and their use of flash > v7, and companies like Adobe for not having a version of flash equal to that of the Windows version. If they want their product to become some sort of web standard then they either need to open it up or need to make sure they have versions built for all platforms. Actually in order for it to be a standard I would say they have to open it up.

Otherwise, I'm happy right where it's at since I run it on all my servers at work, all my desktops at work and all my desktops at home. I could care less what other people do as long as it doesn't effect what I need to do. Unfortunately it does effect me considering all the SPAM I get from zombie Windows machines, wasted bandwidth on all the viruses/worms/trojans on all the Windows machines, non-standard web sites and documents, etc, etc, etc. But for the most part I'm good right where things are.

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Post by Jenda » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:04 am

Ubuntu has billboards in California... or at least one :)

We are striving to create a unified Marketing front for Ubuntu. Trust me, it's not an easy job, and everyone has a different idea of how to get it done.

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Post by worker201 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:02 am

Void Main wrote:Otherwise, I'm happy right where it's at since I run it on all my servers at work, all my desktops at work and all my desktops at home. I could care less what other people do as long as it doesn't effect what I need to do. Unfortunately it does effect me considering all the SPAM I get from zombie Windows machines, wasted bandwidth on all the viruses/worms/trojans on all the Windows machines, non-standard web sites and documents, etc, etc, etc. But for the most part I'm good right where things are.
I'd be a little more worried about hardware if I were you. It would be so easy for someone to come out with a new PC technology, and then only give documentation to Microsoft, effectively locking Linux out of the hardware. Actually, I still wonder if Intel's sudden adoption of SATA was designed to lock out (or at least set back) Linux - if it was, it worked! Of course something like this doesn't really hurt in the short run, because it doesn't affect my hardware or the availability of hardware compatible with my computer. But in the long run, it could have an effect on what is easily available, forcing new computer buyers to run back to Windows, while the rest of us hang onto our supported hardware for dear life. It could be a pretty sad scene.

See, if a distro like Ubuntu was to get, say, 30% of verifiable market share, and remain open, I think hardware manufacturers would have no choice but to include their user base as an important market. And even a cash-ho like Adobe would be suicidal not to get the latest plugins onto that platform.

I like Linux too, and it doesn't seem to affect me at all what other people use. But it does affect me, and to ignore that hurts not only me, but the community at large.

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Post by Void Main » Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:36 pm

worker201 wrote:I'd be a little more worried about hardware if I were you. It would be so easy for someone to come out with a new PC technology, and then only give documentation to Micro$oft, effectively locking Linux out of the hardware.
This has already been happening for years (Winmodems, Winprinters, etc). I'm not as worried about Intel as I am other companies. In fact they just recently (within the last week or two) opened up their onboard video drivers. I believe the have GPL'ed it. However, I am worried about hardware hardware when it comes to Trusted (Treacherous) Computing which is why I take Richard Stallman's side and not Linus Torvald's side of the issue. I'm also not against a 30% Ubuntu share on the desktop which is basically the same thing as a 30% Debian share since Ubuntu is Debian with some pretty lipstick. Debian also picked up a win with the announcement that HP is officially going to support it (actually take Debian related support calls).

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Post by Ice9 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:35 pm

Void Main wrote:
since Ubuntu is Debian with some pretty lipstick
exactly!
And that's one of the things that bug me when it comes to Ubuntu.
Most of the people using it and promoting it don't realize that the very base of their beloved ubuntu is made by all the debian devs around the world.
Nothing really wrong with that, but how does ubuntu differ from say my own box running "unstable"?
NOT! It's the same stuff.
The difference is ubuntu installs in a few clicks and debian gets you a little deeper in your system.

Another thing is the compatibility between both distros, the base is the same and every release of ubuntu is more or less compatible with debian but as the weeks pass it's less and less compatible, until the next release.

And then there's that stupid "sudo" stuff that really ticks me off.
[/end of rant]

Other than that I'm happy with initiatives like ubuntu, don't get me wrong but the fact that it brings nothing new except another debian fork makes me wonder about the usefulness.

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Post by Void Main » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:41 pm

Yeah, that's the part that bugs me about it too. Just like the title of this thread using "pioneer" as if it were it's own distro built from scratch from the ground up and there were no distros before it. I have no problem with it either and in fact I do like it (not enough to actually run it as a primary desktop or server but I like it). I just wish people would give credit where credit is due, that is all of the hard work that people had to put in before it that made it possible to exist in the first place. If people just give that credit I am with them 100%.

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Post by worker201 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:31 pm

[offtopic]
Is there any real benefit in a single-user environment to requiring a user to login to each session? Personally, I login as myself, and occasionally switch to root in order to perform certain administrative tasks, which is appropriate for a multiple user environment. Having yourself be logged in automatically, giving your password only when you need to sudo something is, in abstraction, basically the same thing - it's kinda like logging in as a guest and using a password only for admin stuff.

Here at the office, requiring login makes sense - I don't want anyone using my computer without authorization. But at home, it's a different story.

So, aside from protecting your computer from a visitor sitting in front of it, is there any real reason to favor one system over the other?

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Post by Void Main » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:13 pm

You can configure your machine to log you on automatically when it boots (gdmsetup) which would basically give you a single user environment but still ask you for root's password when needed (or use su/sudo/etc). There is nothing wrong with that. I have a couple of special purpose Linux laptops that I have configured to autologon. I would certainly not recommend having the machine automatically log in as root. It's that abstraction that helps keep Linux free from viruses/malware/etc.

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Post by worker201 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:19 pm

It seems with Ubuntu (and Windows XP Home) that when you create your user, what you are really doing is creating a root user. Then you run your computer as a limited root user, which is basically the same as a guest account with high priveleges. As long as the computer asks for a password before doing anything 'rooty', I don't see how there's a security difference, as far as the system is concerned.

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Post by Void Main » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:27 pm

Well, not really. It just allows your user to "sudo" things as root without asking for a password. I don't particularly like this about it either because I agree it isn't as secure as actually requiring a password. There is nothing stopping you from activating the root account and using it like any other normal Linux distro (sudo passwd root). In fact that's the first thing I do after installing Ubuntu. OR you can fix your /etc/sudoers so it at least asks you for your own password before executing a command as root.

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Post by Void Main » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:59 pm

Jenda wrote:Ubuntu has billboards in California... or at least one :)

We are striving to create a unified Marketing front for Ubuntu. Trust me, it's not an easy job, and everyone has a different idea of how to get it done.
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6074124162.html
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