Proprietary formats becoming a standard sucks rotten eggs

[Void Main]

Flash sucks, period:

http://weblogs.macromedia.com/emmy/arch ... nia_th.cfm

And Jeckyl is a Jackass:

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/ ... erthread=y

[Master of Reality]

...whats flash?

Isnt it just used for annoying banner ads?

[Void Main]

Heh heh, it would be great if that is *all* it was used for because there are some nice Mozilla/Firefox plugins to block the garbage. Unfortunately some people think they have to build their menus and even their entire site in flash.

[moto526]

Wow, I really like flash and it has some great features also... Sites with flash look better that just plan old boring html.

[Void Main]

Content is the most important thing to me, not glitz. Of course flash is good for things like this:

http://voidmain.is-a-geek.net/i/kimble_themovie.swf

Actually that would have been better done with SVG. Flash is not good for building an entire site. Even if it were an open standard and the players were open there are several reasons it's not a good idea. I skip sites built entirely on flash. Of course that's just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

[Master of Reality]

I really hate sites that are built on it too. I will not wait for a site when it tells me that its loading the flash for it. Some parts such as small clips are alright, but menus and other stuff that could be done in something more practical suck in flash.

I dont mind some flash games as well

[Calum]

flash may be great and all that oops, but when a user is faced with one of those huge flash (or worse, shockwave) boxes and nothing else on a page, will they go to the bother of installing the plugin? often the answer is no.

of course microsoft's flash plugin is installed by default in MS windows, so there's no problem is there?

[Void Main]

Microsoft has a flash plugin? That must be a new thing. Are you sure it still doesn't have to be installed from Macromedia's site? It may happen so seamlessly the first time it's installed that it isn't noticed but I don't think Windows ships with flash capability. I could be wrong, it's been a long time since I touched Windows. I also see YaHoo! is working on their own maps interface much like maps.google.com (which is done with AJAX) except they are doing theirs in flash:

http://maps.yahoo.com/beta/

Google rules! :)

[Calum]

i am moderately sure that windows 2000 (the only one i can remember installing) and possibly windows 98 have a flash plugin (and i think a shockwave plugin) which is optional, but really, i would opt not to install it anyway, if i were installing windows 200 that is. it's possible it's just from macromedia, i assumed it would be a microsoft standards-breaking special, though, designed to not-quite be the same as macromedia's one and thereby split the market and dominate it, but perhaps i made that all up.

can anybody yay or nay all this since it is all just from my fairly shaky memory?

[Void Main]

I am reasonably certain that Microsft doesn't have (and never has had) their own home written flash plugin. If they did it would sort of defeat the entire point of this thread. Here's an article where they are trying to make a deal with Adobe to bundle flash with Vista and implement "Save as PDF" in their word processor:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2 ... 047,00.asp

Microsoft has offered Adobe the opportunity to have its Acrobat PDF reader, Flash and/or Shockwave technologies bundled into Vista, Heiner said. Microsoft also has extended to Adobe an offer to include in Windows Vista their own "Save as PDF" plug-in. Adobe is still considering the PDF reader, Flash and/or Shockwave integration, but is not interested in the PDF-export technology deal, Heiner said.

My point was that flash is not an open standard and one company controls and develops it, yet it is becoming a standard as far as being used which is bad. We're at Adobe's mercy. They can help Microsoft push Linux and other OSs off the desktop computing scene by doing what they are doing right now. You can only get flash v7 for Linux at the moment yet v9 is available for Windows. If people build their web sites with flash v9 then Linux people are screwed. You can't just go out and write a flash v9 plugin/player because flash v9 is not an open standard. The specifications are a tightly held secret. It helps keep the monopolies monopolies. With open standards you have competition.

[Calum]

i agree. trade secrets hinder innovation and progress, in all areas, not just software development. stifling competition in order to hoard all the profits does nothing to help the users, the developers or anybody except whomever is getting all the hoarded profits.

still, i wonder how it is so difficult for microsoft to implement save to pdf in their "word processor". i have had it as a button in my openoffice.org word processor for years.

and re: flash, the users do have a part to play. i think that ideally users would shun websites which have no alternative but to make you use flash to view them. in my opinion a site that does that should have noticeably less visitors. if the general public do nothing except moan, all the time endorsing (by continuing to use) whatever the large monopolists dish out to them, then there is a limit to what legislation and freemarket economics can do to curb the monopolists' greed.

microsoft windows is a perfect example of this. since i can remember the majority of users moan about how bad windows is. how many of them get off their arse and stop using it? roughly none, that's the sad truth. there's nothing i can do about it. change comes from within, or it is temporary at best, and that's true of something like software choice as well as more abstract things like free speech, human rights or personal acceptance. often in response to people moaning about windows being atrocious, i suggest they use linux only to get an even more vehement moan about how linux was too hard to install, too hard to use, all that crap, which is simply a load of meaningless excuses designed to hide the fact that they have no intention of learning anything other than how to continue to use their cranky old windows PoS. the vehemence of their responses shows me that they know they are talking oops about how "difficult" linux systems are, but don't want to admit that there is some learning issue within themselves. i am a complete luddite and i use and admin my own linux systems at home and have done for years, a variety of different distros and applications, too, not just one type and stick to it. therefore, i think there's no excuse for lazy users perpetuating the very thing they moan about. they should either shut up or take action, one or the other.

sometimes i think people just like to have something to moan about.

edit: by the way, if you must have a swear filter, can't it change the words to something contextual? like caca instead of oops? oops really disrupts the flow of meaning, just a personal opinion, i know it's your forums and all that, and i assume your response will be that a swear filter helps to ensure a "child friendly" website. i long since disabled the swear filters in my own forums though because they miss some words no matter how you configure them and also i reasoned that ideas have a much greater potential to offend and shock than swear words, and since i uphold the right to free speech, and the free flow of ideas, something like a swear filter became suddenly meaningless by comparison. my swear filters were only to filter out racially and culturally offensive words anyway, and i would rather change the opinions of bigots by honest discourse than censor their bigotry, though i will do that as well by hand if they are offensive on my forums. sorry, didn't mean to go O/T for a whole paragraph!

[Void Main]

Of course I agree with everything you say.

Now for the off-topic paragraph, I have one of my own. :) I don't believe you offer free speech by your own definition if you filter any words at all (censoring the bigots as you say). I make no claim to free speech on these forums as you know. Free speech is "extremely" important to me however, but in proper context. For example, I don't expect to be able to walk into someone's home and start swearing at their children any time I like without the homeowner being able to do anything about it. No, that's not what free speech is all about as you know. Likewise, think of these forums as my home, not as the front lawn of the White House or Buckingham palace. As far as the "Ooops" goes, that's a default term built in to phpBB's word sensor. I could change it to something else but it would be just as meaningless. I could go and create a word for each individual swear word like change "sh!t" to "cr4p" (sorry kids) but what's the point in that? If I read the senor word and my mind automatically translates it to the bad word, what's the point? Just don't swear. And if people want to get around the sensor by altering the spelling (sh!t) I just delete their posts. If you have to swear to make your point then your point must not be a strong one. Just my humble opinion. :)

[Void Main]

Another site for the hall of shame:

http://www.racerxfilms.com/

Requires Flash v8 to view the videos. Too bad too, I would really like to watch the videos. I sent the webmaster a note but I doubt it'll have any impact. At least I found a webmaster address in this case. Most sites that lock me out will have no webmaster address anywhere to be found.

[Calum]

you are right void main, i wasn't trying to justify swearing, it's a habit i picked up in australia (would you believe!) - as a kid and teen i think i may have been the only one out of our whole group of friends who didn't actually swear!

all i'm saying is, some people will swear ocassionally, without thinking about it, and i think it's confusing to the third party reader if they see "what a pile of oops" instead of "what a pile of poop". i know it is an extremely minor point, but i was just making the point that the swear filter could be more readable in context, i wasn't saying anything about swearing per se. anyway, as you say it's your forums. i don't give a fsck!