Void's Forums

Well,

Firstly I will ask a simple question, what is it that really made us all hate Microsoft? I believe most will accept my own response: That it treats all users as the same idiots and that this patronizing attitude towards the customer is unbearable. Even on its server front Microsoft treat all administrators as the same idiots and this is also unbearable. Shift aside the issues of bloat, the issues of embrace/extend/extinguish and it becomes quite abundantly clear that there is the same collectivist evil on our "side."

Ubuntu is pure unrefined evil. This distribution ties down all users as the same idiots, this distribution itself has embraced Linux, extended it, and extinguished Linux culture which really is my own heritage. I guess if one were to go to opposite extremes Slackware comes to mind. Ubuntu was created by the worst of the Linux community. I wish I never hoped for friendly open source because as the phrase goes: "Careful what you wish for." Ubuntu on its server and desktop fronts is a force that is utterly destructive to what Linux was really all about. It hasn't made anything better for the users, because afterall they really are just idiots and there is no other common characteristic for them.

The only way to deal with idiots collectively on the mass-market is with the worst form of collectivist judgment and the CeNsOrEd child of this movement is Ubuntu. Everything wrong with Microsoft is wrong with Ubuntu and everything morally wrong about Microsoft's approach to software is also going to be morally wrong about Ubuntu. It really doesn't matter which ethos you live by either. Ubuntu's evils create bad user habits in the same way that Microsoft does, through the acceptance of stupidity. Ubuntu puts the user in the back seat of his own operating system and as a result, garbage goes in and garbage goes out. It's a living memorial of the results of hedonism.

The system exists for nothing other than the short-term whims of computer users that need to be protected from themselves. Tell me, Void, why in the hell don't you just ban discussions about Ubuntu on this forum for the same reason we don't talk about Microsoft and SuSE? One day you will wish you had, as Ubuntu carries with itself the same cancer as Microsoft Windows! I'll always be waiting in the sidelines to tell you that I told you so, but it doesn't have to have such an abrupt ending does it?

:) You should have posted this in the Ubuntu section. ;) Very nice rant and I do see your point(s). One thing Ubuntu is that Microsoft isn't, open. Users at least have an option not to be stupid. With Microsoft they have no choice.

X, I am not here to disagree, but rather to gain more insight on your comment on ubuntu. I designed an entire application using ubuntu as the client and fedora and centos as the server. In the early design of the system, I was having a hard time getting fedora to operate as i wanted it to and found that ubuntu just worked. Now granted, I am not an expert in Linux, but I can handle my own. I also don't want to say that fedora can't do what I was trying to do, but I could not figure it out. Since I was able to accomplish my task with ubuntu, I have since rolled out the application to almost 400 clients around the world. All operating pretty flawlessly.
I was able to take the client application, strip it down to just what I needed and create images to roll out. In case you are wondering, one of the issues I was having was properly displaying flash on multiple monitors (up to four with a quad head nvidia), with different configurations(some portrait, some landscape). Like I said, I am sure fedora can do it, but when I was designing it, the flash playback was really choppy. Please enlighten me as I am here to listen. I am currently designing my next version and if there are other distros that work like ubuntu has, I would love to try them out.

PS, I am going to try fedora again because I believe it was Fedora12 I was developing on.
Thanks for your time!

Knowing X11's history I don't think he's much of a fan of Fedora either. I think what he's saying is Ubuntu works "too well" so people don't get as much of a chance to learn by having to make things work. :) And X11, Microsoft isn't banned on these forums because it is "easy", it is banned because it's proprietary.

i've got to agree with void here.
i *want* a distro that works. one thing i hated about ms windows was the constant unfixable problems. I always felt with linux/GNU systems that at least you had a chance to fix the problems, but more recently this has proven not to be the case (with fedora and mandriva anyway, and slack seems not to have had any intelligent changes since about version 7 or .

And ubuntu was on that list too, but out of desperation i'm back with it now and it seems to be working, and yet it's still linux, and i can still do what i want, in a way i never could with windows. Simply the amount of apps i've installed since getting it (or updates even), with ms windows i shudder to think of the unexplainable system problems that would have arisen if i had tried to install that amount of stuff, let alone how much longer it would have taken (and how many "are you sure" boxes i would have had to click "ok" on).

So far though ubuntu 10 has been a friend. let's see how long that lasts.

Void Main wrote:Knowing X11's history I don't think he's much of a fan of Fedora either. I think what he's saying is Ubuntu works "too well" so people don't get as much of a chance to learn by having to make things work. And X11, Microsoft isn't banned on these forums because it is "easy", it is banned because it's proprietary.

The funny thing is, you being anonymous, you are also proprietary. Your entire life is a hidden trade secret.

So, the basement dwellers are still around I see. Afraid their defining trait is no longer going to be so defining, that it'll become uncool because it's become popular. Just like how bands suck once they've pressed an album.

Nobody wants to remember 60,000 commands and variables to run everything from the terminal. So some things are faster that way, but most aren't because humans are visual creatures, most of us prefer to actually see what we're doing in a non text manner because it's how our brains are hard wired.

So what has Canonical done that has E.E.E.'d the OSS world? I've seen no proprietary projects from them, only a group that actually has a semi coherent idea of what they're doing and where they want to be next release.

Don't fear success man, you want to be able to ensure any and all hardware works on Linux? How about having games finally come to Linux? Well you need a cohesive distro that actually attempts to keep up with the times and makes things inviting enough that a pointy haired manager can use it.

So yeah, that means Linux no longer a hipster geek product, but if thats your thing, theres always Plan 9, from outer space.

I am a huge fan of Ubuntu. I don't use it personally, but I have replaced Windows with Ubuntu on my parents computer, and it was a flawless transition. They have adjusted well to it.

More "normal" people using some form of Linux is a good thing in my opinion.

I applaud their attempt to create a unified UI too. It's not perfect, but it is getting much, much better

Duo Maxwell wrote:Nobody wants to remember 60,000 commands and variables to run everything from the terminal. So some things are faster that way, but most aren't because humans are visual creatures, most of us prefer to actually see what we're doing in a non text manner because it's how our brains are hard wired.

i understand your point, but that simply isn't true. What i think you mean is that the majority of computer users have a lot more practice working graphically than textually, and so it is more natural for them to prefer to do so. Hard wiring isn't something the human brain really has a lot of. There are people who find it easier to use a CLI than a GUI for many things (though most ideally would use a combination, i imagine) and that's not because their "hard wiring" is any different, or because they've broken their brain's programming, it's because they have become familiar with a certain way of working, just like the GUI addicts. It has nothing to do with hard wiring or us being a visual creature. A CLI is also a visual interface after all.

Calum wrote:

Duo Maxwell wrote:Nobody wants to remember 60,000 commands and variables to run everything from the terminal. So some things are faster that way, but most aren't because humans are visual creatures, most of us prefer to actually see what we're doing in a non text manner because it's how our brains are hard wired.

i understand your point, but that simply isn't true. What i think you mean is that the majority of computer users have a lot more practice working graphically than textually, and so it is more natural for them to prefer to do so. Hard wiring isn't something the human brain really has a lot of. There are people who find it easier to use a CLI than a GUI for many things (though most ideally would use a combination, i imagine) and that's not because their "hard wiring" is any different, or because they've broken their brain's programming, it's because they have become familiar with a certain way of working, just like the GUI addicts. It has nothing to do with hard wiring or us being a visual creature. A CLI is also a visual interface after all.

just my personal experience (maybe I'm the sort of user X11 hates): the few commands I use regularly are mv, cp, rm, ls, gcc, latex, ssh, vim (actually, usually it's gvim--recommended!). I have to resort to google or a GUI tool to do anything else (how am I supposed to remember some command I use twice a year?). I always prefer doing it the GUI way, since I can just open up whatever program/wizard/panel seems appropriate, look at the options, and figure out what I need to click. I don't think this has anything to do with hard wiring--if you sit me at a command line and tell me to make a disco file list, I wouldn't intuitively know to type ls -lha.

so keep on shining on, ubuntu.

Whenever I do use GUI tools I always open a terminal (or ALT+F2) and type in the name of the command to start it rather than hunting through the menu trying to find it. I know, I'm a sick puppy. :)

I'm guilty of the alt+f2 thing as well. maybe I didn't realize how much I depend on CLI!

I saw this today, felt it was related to this discussion: http://acko.net/blog/on-termkit