Whoa Redhat - what now?

Place to discuss Fedora and/or Red Hat
caveman
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Whoa Redhat - what now?

Post by caveman » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:14 pm

Hi.

Just received in my inbox.
Know it has been on the cards - but never seemed to take notice;)

<quote>
Thank you for being a Red Hat Network customer.

This e-mail provides you with important information about the upcoming
discontinuation of Red Hat Linux, and resources to assist you with your
migration to another Red Hat solution.

As previously communicated, Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and
errata support for Red Hat Linux 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 as of December
31, 2003. Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for
Red Hat Linux 9 as of April 30, 2004. Red Hat does not plan to release
another product in the Red Hat Linux line.

</qoute>

Where to now? Fedora or Enterprise?
<edit>
And the Price for enterpri$e - who they trying to compete with?
</edit>

What about all the code developed - my my my - I can't
even think about recompiling, testing and QA nightmares
it'll involve!
Most of my code won't even compile clean on RH 9 without
major changes and or using some extra switches.

Anybody taken the migration step already?

Been a RH user since 6.0 - and been upgrading, installing testing
ever since and I've a few 7.3 clients out there
(reckon they'll be happy into the distant future!)

Maybe change to SUSE. All of about 95% of my code was tested
on SuSe installations without major problems.
In fact - one installation runs Redhat and Suse side by side with
code compiled on RH 7.3 without any problems at all.

Where, what and how are the rest of you planning to go forward?

Regards.

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Post by Void Main » Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:35 pm

I've used Red Hat since their first version way back in around '94. I am currently using Red Hat 9 and I fully expect to use Red Hat 10 when it goes final. Of course if the Fedora thing doesn't work out I will flop over to Debian for the majority of my stuff but I expect Fedora to continue what Red Hat was as I knew it. For business needs we also use RHAS with Oracle where support is important. It's funny, as long as I've been using Red Hat and as happy as I've been with it I am not at all worried about the latest announcements one way or the other, whether I stay with them or switch over to something else. I do believe the news articles (like the one on Newsforge) are WAAAAY overblown though. At least we have a choice, unlike the M$ world.

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Post by caveman » Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:00 pm

Hmmm - ditto that Void - for the joy of working with RH AND for
having a choice to change as and when we feel like it.

I just finished installing Oracle 9.2 on RH 7.3.
Got the shared libraries recompiled without any problems
(Used Delphi - and Kylix) and will be installing a system in Dec.

I've never used or even seen a Debian installation - maybe now
is the time to start an investigation:)

Redhat 10? - you jest I'm sure! didn't even know it was in the offing.
or you calling the "Fedora thing" RH10 heh heh.

Cheers.
It's 04h00 in the morning here and off to bed -
allthough my office really is next door....
have a meeting in town at 9 (about 2 miles away!)
All that traveling....jeez

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Post by Void Main » Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:10 pm

It won't be called Red Hat 10, but that is basically what Fedora is when they finalize the next version. You won't be able to purchase it in the store, but then I haven't purchased a copy of Red Hat in a store since version 6.2 if I recall.

As far as Debian, I have used it a fair amount on Intel and Sparc. It really is a great distro and actually has more software available for it. Not a lot in the way of commercial software support though (Oracle, Sybase, etc) although you can probably get that commercial software to run on Debian. If you are running apt/synaptic on Red Hat then you will be pretty comfortable switching over to Debian.

The main difference is when you run Synaptic you will find about 5 times as many apps available for Debian. You might miss the nice Red Hat graphical installer and the Red Hat specific graphical configuration utilities. The nice thing about Debian is you only install it once so the installer isn't that much of a big deal. In fact it is actually better than the Red Hat installer when it comes to flexibility. Instead of using the "rpm" command you would use the "dpkg" command. Instead of RPM files you have DEB files. But apt/synaptic works the same in both. There are a lot of similarities. Really not all that big of a jump.

I would never switch from Red Hat to go to SUSE, nor would I switch from SUSE to go to Red Hat. As far as I am concerned the only difference between the two are one is based out of Germany and the other is based out of the US. As I mentioned I used Red Hat since their initial version and I was very concerned about the direction that they were going the day they announced their IPO. I didn't know if I would be able to trust them any longer. They never really gave me a reason not to. I think this announcement could be a part of (or start of) what I was worried about way back on their IPO day. Again, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now but it's nice to know there are other distros out there should things not work out.

The problem is, people like me use both their download version *and* their commercial version (RHAS). If things don't work out with Fedora they may just lose me on the commercial side as well. But I don't want to jump the gun. As I said, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt unlike some news sites out there.

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Post by Linux Frank » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:21 am

I thought that the plan was Fedora would be the freebie offering of compiled source. The idea being to farm out that section of the work, still using it as a base for their AS stuff. What is probably going to happen is some marketing gumpf like Fedora is RH desktop edition and Red Hat is the Advanced Server, Clustering type stuff.

I never got the impression they intend to stop providing a desktop, it's just that the desktop project is managed out of house, and RH becomes synonymous with enterprise computing. Remember a year ago RH were saying they had little interest in the desktop market (at least for a few years). this is probably a money management exercise at the end of the day.

RH got where they are by using a good model. They have a lot of support from the bottom end of the model, and there is no way they are going to throw that away. If SuSE had offered ISOs it might well have knocked RH about a lot more, RH must know this is one of the reasons they are successful.

Of course it's all change at the moment.

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Post by ZiaTioN » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:33 am

LOL, I was just coming here to post on this same thing. I just read my email this morning!!
Dear ZiaTioN,

Thank you for being a Red Hat Network customer.

This e-mail provides you with important information about the upcoming
discontinuation of Red Hat Linux, and resources to assist you with your
migration to another Red Hat solution.

As previously communicated, Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and
errata support for Red Hat Linux 7.1, 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 as of December
31, 2003. Red Hat will discontinue maintenance and errata support for
Red Hat Linux 9 as of April 30, 2004. Red Hat does not plan to release
another product in the Red Hat Linux line.

With the recent announcement of Red Hat Enterprise Linux v.3, you'll
find migrating to Enterprise Linux appealing. We understand
that transitioning to another Red Hat solution requires careful planning
and implementation. We have created a migration plan for Red Hat Network
customers to help make the transition as simple and seamless as
possible. Details:

****************
If you purchase Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS or ES Basic before February
28, 2004, you will receive 50% off the price for two years.[*] (That's two
years for the price of one.)

****************
In addition, we have created a Red Hat Linux Migration Resource Center
to address your migration planning and other questions, such as:

* What are best practices for implementing the migration to Red Hat
Enterprise Linux?

* Are there other migration alternatives?

* How do I purchase Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS or ES Basic at the price
above?

* What if my paid subscription to RHN extends past April 30, 2004?

****************

Find out more about your migration options with product comparisons,
whitepapers and documentation at the Red Hat Linux Migration Resource
Center:

http://www.redhat.com/solutions/migration/rhl/rhn


Or read the FAQ written especially for Red Hat Network customers:

https://rhn.redhat.com/help/rhlmigrationfaq/

Sincerely,

Red Hat, Inc.


[*] Limit 10 units. Higher volume purchase inquiries should contact a
regional Red Hat sales representative. Contact numbers available at
http://www.redhat.com/solutions/migration/rhl/rhn

--the Red Hat Network Team
So does this mean that redhat will no longer be available for free download? Is it time to switch to Mandrake or Debian? I really hope they are not taking the Microsoft approach. This will kill RedHat if they do not offer Linux for free anhymore.

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Post by dishawjp » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:30 am

Hi All,

When I first heard about the discontinuation of RHL I was also very concerned. I even posted some of my concerns to this forum when it was first announced. Since then, I've been following the development of Fedora Linux (the new name for Red Hat Linux) on http://fedora.redhat.com

I now have no concerns about upgrading to Fedora once "Core 1" (the stable version) is released. I will have to find some place to purchase the CD's since I only have a 56k internet connection, but they are supposed to be available from http://linuxinstall.org and http://www.fedora.us. It was originally to have been released yesterday, but there has been a glitch and it is now scheduled to be available either tomorrow or Thursday. Either way, I expect to place an order for the CD's as soon as they are available.

I'm going to try to do an upgrade install over my RH8 install and leave my RH9 install alone for the time being.

Red Hat has opened development of their Fedora product to the community but is retaining sufficient control that I'm confident that the product will be at least as good as their RHL offerings were.

Like I said, I was VERY concerned at first, but now I'm just looking forward to more excellent software from Red Hat with the main differences being:

1) No "official" support options available from Red Hat.
2) A new name.

HTH

Jim Dishaw

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Post by ZiaTioN » Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:17 pm

You forgot the fact that it is not going to be offered for free anymore. This is and was always one of the huge selloing points to Linux as a whole. If I wanted to pay for a stable open source OS I would buy Solaris and run Unix.

I am sure that the new RH will be as good if not better then the previous releases but you will be forced to buy it now instead of having a choice of buying the support. I for one will not purchase the new RH and am quiet dissapointed with RH in their decision to go capitalist on me :)

Or am I mistaken in thinking the new RH will not be free?

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Post by Void Main » Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:30 pm

ZiaTioN wrote:You forgot the fact that it is not going to be offered for free anymore. This is and was always one of the huge selloing points to Linux as a whole. If I wanted to pay for a stable open source OS I would buy Solaris and run Unix.
Better yet, it's free'er than it was previously. Remember Fedora *is* the successor to Red Hat 9. Not only will you still be able to download it for free but the cheap CD houses will be able to sell it for 5 bucks like they do with Debian and the others. They couldn't do that when it was called "Red Hat". Now, their Red Hat Advanced Server line isn't really changing, you could never get that for free. There are valid support/upgrade issues that I have seen flying around but I don't believe you are currently an Advanced Server user, or am I wrong?
I am sure that the new RH will be as good if not better then the previous releases but you will be forced to buy it now instead of having a choice of buying the support. I for one will not purchase the new RH and am quiet dissapointed with RH in their decision to go capitalist on me :)

Or am I mistaken in thinking the new RH will not be free?
Mistaken. :)

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Post by ZiaTioN » Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:43 pm

Sweet!!

Good to know. I thought it was not going to be offered for free anymore. Where did you get your facts from? Is there an article specifying what is going to be offered fro free and what is not?

*Edit:

Actually I think I found an answer to my own question on the Fedors website

http://fedora.redhat.com/

Says that one of the projects missions is to widely offer fedore core free for download.

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Post by Linux Frank » Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:04 pm

The only thing you will not be able to do is walk into a store and buy a box. But that is fine. I see a time when computer stores will offer the CDs at $5, like linuxISO and other download sights. It is essentially free money, and I'm suprised none of them do so now.

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Post by Void Main » Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:05 pm

Heck, you could do it yourself. :)

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Post by Linux Frank » Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:15 pm

Trouble is thats where my head for business falls apart. I give them away to anyone who asks. I've taken to keeping a set of ISOs in my bag, and if someone asks I just hand out a copy.

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Post by Void Main » Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:42 pm

You can still give them away for free, but there is nothing wrong with you charging for your effort of creating the CDs and mailing them for those who don't have high speed. Your time should not be free unless you just want to donate that as well. That would surely be noble (although not very smart if you are not already financially set). I donate a significant amount of my time in various ways (this site for instance). It's worth it when you believe in something.

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Post by Calum » Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:30 pm

i think there will be a lot of hoo hah about this, but as void says, it looks like business as usual with some improvements. to be honest though i suspecti will stick with rh9 and probably will just upgrade to slack 9.1, rejoining the fedora thing after i see what like it is going.

however i theoretically support fedora and will be watching with interest.

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